[00:16:51] Carl Richards: I get this email all the time from big like the head of training at huge firms that you would all recognize saying, “Could you come help our advisors learn how to talk to humans?” and there’s a bunch. And then I filled the prescription, took the prescription home and gave it to my daughter. If they came into your office, how much work it took them just to get there? The Cheshire Cat: Oh, you’re sure to do that, if only you walk long enough. What is the behavior gap, exactly? [44:04] Why women in financial services are often better at working with non-dominant spouses in conversation. [00:20:53] Carl Richards: And so, I think that’s the other, the more benign version of this is just a natural progression as you move along the industry, any industry, attorneys are guilty of this that any industry as you get smarter and smarter and more and more experienced, you think someone cares. Ok, as we wrap this show, thanks again for those of you who have taken the time to write a quick review, I love reading each and every one. Dan Solin who was a colleague of mine for a period of time, he wrote a book called The Smartest Sales Book You’ll Ever Need and then there he talks about his opening question is, “What brought you in today?” So, it doesn’t really matter but for me, it was Bachrach and Simon Sinek running into each other and so I would ask this question. Well, first, I have to ask were you being sarcastic about me finding that surprising? New York Times columnist and CFP Carl Richards joins us in the basement on today’s epic length show to talk financial planning. I know they walked in with their hands on their wallets like, “You’re not going to get this from me.” That’s why I think we need to stop with that like, “Here’s how I great I am.”. Tell me more.” “Oh, why?” Like, we just accept like clients will say to you, like, “What was your goals?” “I need 5 million by retirement,” like sometimes clients will come in not prepared and you, “Oh, 5 million by retirement.” You never took the – all I’m saying is like, “Oh, that’s interesting. Results from the use of these concepts are not guaranteed. As always, all the additional show notes, books mentioned, people discussed as well as a full transcript of the entire show can be found at BradleyJohnson.com/61 as well. "I asked a PR firm what it would cost to get mentioned in the New York Times. I don’t remember it being bad. And the answer without actually, with one exception, who I’d never fly with. Professionally, I started listening when I began my career in financial services in 2017. Don’t use those words in front of a client but they didn’t know so you just clarified something that they didn’t even really know. You’re doing public work. [00:16:48] Brad Johnson: Now, I’ve dealt with it for 12 years. It’s the sign that you’ve done something right like when you ask a good question, a good question, by definition, is something somebody hasn’t been asked before. And so, all I’m saying is instead of trying to appear smart, spend all that time and energy training, practice listening, asking good questions and listening. And you start with the ones the least verbally dominant. Today I’m excited to bring this conversation to you as I’m not sure we’ve ever done a deeper dive into the structure of a proper appointment process on this show and the psychology of why your prospects make the decision to either work with you or someone else. I’m just plugging him at the beginning of this conversation. Because oftentimes what I’ll run into we’re all about the analytics and tracking your results from your marketing and your ROIs but sometimes people will discount, “Oh, they just want to get a prospect,” and they won’t actually self-assess and say, “Wait. For access to show notes, transcripts and exclusive content from our show’s guests, visit. So, let me just I think a couple things, mainly because I think we’re coming to a growing realization this is happening in other industries a lot faster than it’s happening in ours where people are coming this growing realization that plans are worthless without the ongoing process of planning. It wasn’t like lightning striking. I just hope there’s no revolt like I’m still waiting for like the sheep to knock on the door like, “Hey, man. There’s a difference between, anyway, super, super good stuff. As soon as I heard the word three, I was like, “Ah,” and my wife he starts going in these complex options and my wife interrupts him. If it wasn’t scary, it wouldn’t be sort of dancing with the mystery is the way I think of it like touching because you’re literally putting something that you care about out and you’re asking people to evaluate it. You got to show up with little vulnerability yourself. So, that Dave and Diane meeting, the first like if you want to call it the first source sketch that I drew in front of somebody was 95. When you go to the doctor, you hated it when you go to the dentist and then here, we ask people to do it. I don’t know very many things that are more human than this unfortunate just the world we live in but this unfortunate relationship we have with money and then I think there’s the post. I want to – where is it? Like she wasn’t even listening back then. [00:38:05] Brad Johnson: Well, think about it this way too. It’s amazing. And oftentimes we’re so worried about our solutions, we don’t actually uncover what their problems are. Like I like to get up in people’s faces and then say, “Hey, but I also know how hard it is.” All I’m asking you gently to do is just like just remind yourself of the humanity of the work you’re doing and just pause and go…, Yeah. So, let’s go, let’s start with the doing public work. [1:06:00] Why Carl and his wife moved to New Zealand, and how this story reflects how impossible it is to stick to long-term plans of any kind. I mean, I’ve read a couple of biographies but I never read like a memoir. I realize that’s direct and I’m just asking you to sort of play with it a bit like if somebody walks into your office for a first meeting, they’re a prospective client, they come to your office for a first meeting. And that could be just come just a really fun game like I think of it as an academic trying to solve a problem like some of my favorite questions is what you just said, “Oh, I love listening Brian Koppelman has this great podcast called The Moment and you will hear him in the middle of conversation and he’ll go, “Keep going,” or he’ll say, “Go deeper,” like you just said. Scary is built into the process. It’s a sign that you’re on the right track. Like, forget the rest of the work you’re going to do. Hours: M-F 8am-5pm Wow. I’m not saying that at all, but I am saying it’s certainly fascinating to see other parts of the world and we learned so much from here, Australia, and Southeast Asia. He’ll flip the projection section of the pitch book and he tears them out and throws them away like and so I think this idea we’ve sold, there’s a false sense of precision in our industry. Help us understand.” So, the next meeting they do that. In fact if you’d like to connect on a more personal level, give me a follow on. It was Steve and Diane without sharing their last names and I believe it was just flow of money. We just release the pressure so I use the word “gets”. And how could I help Julie without it, right? Please keep pushing. The best advisors I know do it all the time and they just have to remind themselves. I’ve asked this question a lot and the only thing I have to offer is playing in traffic. A couple of things that are meaningful to you. So, as you start to go through and I know you unpacked asking the why behind that, let’s keep going down that path and helping the client understand why they need to plan in the first place because I think sometimes clients don’t even understand that when they first walk in. So, the only way to solve for a complex adaptive system is to take the next step and then reset. He reviews the questionnaire in front of us. Money is just a tool that helps you do certain things in life and they never got to that far into the conversation where they figured that out. [00:25:03] Carl Richards: I don’t know that anybody can claim credit for any of these things, but I do know that that’s where I learned what’s important about money to you is Bill or John’s question. I got to find a new surgeon.” So, I just say start from that position of professional confidence and then give people like shock people. Thanks again for joining and be sure to tune in next week for another episode. It takes about five minutes to fill up the application so we can understand what your business looks like, what challenges you may be facing, and how myself and my team may be able to help. Cool. They were thinking we have one in Hawaii and we want to buy another one. Due to crazy high shipping prices, it just doesn’t make sense to spend $20 to $40 to ship you a $10 book so please accept my apology and just go support Carl and grab a copy at your local bookstore or out on Amazon. So, whatever this print’s name that’s kind of in your scribble and I think so for those that are just listening on audio, it’s a straight line where you are today on the left-hand side, on the right-hand side where you want to go, and in the middle how do you get there. "The way to do this is to start saying stuff you're passionate about and people will listen.". Last point, think about a doctor. I mean, not to leave ten days later, but ten days later we had purchased the plane tickets to leave 90 days later. I just wanted to make sure. Well, I just want to say thank you. They just don’t. It’s scary. I don’t remember it being bad. [00:02:24] Brad Johnson: Due to crazy high shipping prices, it just doesn’t make sense to spend $20 to $40 to ship you a $10 book so please accept my apology and just go support Carl and grab a copy at your local bookstore or out on Amazon. Like, “Okay, time that that’s really important and if it’s okay later we’ll put some parameters around that and define it. What was that experience worth? I’m scared,” you need to have a voice in your head that says, “Nothing is wrong with you, brother,” like just dive in. I mean, we were talking about writing which you’ve done a lot of. How do you start to frame that for clients because it is if you don’t know where you’re going, anywhere will take you there, right? So, if you’re interested in this stuff, that’s where I would go. Let me know if you listen to the show, how you found it, what guests I should have on, etcetera. And oftentimes we’re so worried about our solutions, we don’t actually uncover what their problems are. Like I took a pottery class when I was eight and you should see like the pieces of paper that actually – and when I present live to groups 100 people to 3,000 people like they’re just a mess like what I’m doing live. Working with one of the largest if not the largest brokerage firms in the US. Let’s clarify a little bit,” and then just right back, “Why is flexibility important to you?” Longer pause and uncomfortable looking at Steve like, “Save me.” She says with a little emotion, “Gosh, I just want some time.”  So, hard-charging ER doctor, medical school residency, “I just want some time and I haven’t even like I want some time.”. Sorry. You can see me smiling now. I think you’re really right. And again, I understand where it comes from. Of course, you’re excited because you know. And Bill I learned it from Bill from his book and then I also learned it from John Bowen and John Bowen is the one that taught me the word, The Discovery Meeting, and I know attorneys have been using that forever. I’m not saying that at all, but I am saying it’s certainly fascinating to see other parts of the world and we learned so much from here, Australia, and Southeast Asia. “Would you tell me please, which way I ought to go from here?” “That depends a good deal on where you want to get to,” said the cat. I’ve seen advisors who do this like, remember, they don’t care about your solutions. The client or the prospect they don’t care about your solutions. I had a doctor friend of mine who’s a client who pointed to the south to me because I was going in to like a 75-point bullet point presentation with 12-point Michael Kitces style. This content is intended only for financial professionals and is provided for informational purposes only. And then there’s a whole story behind that but that’s how they first sort of appeared in The Times and then now October will be 10 years. I don’t know if you heard that part.” But engaging Steve in the level that obviously he’s interested so learning and I can just think of so many stories about spouses whether they are male or female, and unfortunately, we have a stereotype. And you just say, “Brad, why is money important to you?” Now, you can say to Dan Sullivan, Brad, if we are meeting three years from now, what would have to happen over the next three years for you to feel like this is been a success? I, in fact, I’ll hold this up for those watching on YouTube, I actually have a Carl Richards print from – this is at least a decade old when you originally I think started offering them on your website so I’ve been following you for a long time, but I’ve never actually heard the origin story of how did you turn these simplistic sketches into a career and everything that’s come from there. Information shared routinely resonates with me on a professional and personal level. So, that’s it. Pam Houston who is a memoirist which I’ve never read like I’ve never read a memoir in my life. [00:14:37] Brad Johnson: Wow. We got this thing. Please keep finding the edge. He do the same things over and over. So, I would record these and then listen to them afterwards and be like, “Oh, did I really do that?” Like, I would still re-listen to my podcast interviews and like, “Do I really hit the table and the whole camera moves like I just did?” That kind of stuff. That’s somebody’s life. I’m thoroughly impressed. [00:00:26] Brad Johnson: Welcome to the Elite Advisor Blueprint, the podcast for world-class financial advisors. Carl and his work have also been featured on Oprah.com and Forbes.com, and he frequently keynotes at financial planning conferences all around the world. Her name is Julie. Cool. I think we’re a bit calloused because we see the same problems over and over and we create the same solutions over and over where we forget these are human beings walking and sharing their deepest darkest secrets around money that they probably haven’t shared with anyone, including their own kids and we just treat them like, “Fill out this questionnaire,” like very mechanical and your point in the book you mentioned it’s more like a therapy session than it is a session with a financial advisor and I found the very best advisors that’s exactly the way they approach it. It’s just not true. This was years ago and we met. [01:02:09] Brad Johnson: Do you find people more present and more aware in New Zealand or is it the same bustle that you find in the US as well? So, to me, it’s so funny because I was just thinking through like I don’t recall it being bad and I think that’s what’s so interesting to me about that is like if you and maybe listeners can go through this exercise, if you think about the last time you saw someone fail like maybe you saw like what comes to my mind is like a child at a performance or even an adult like the last time – if you think about the last time you saw someone “fail”, think about the emotions you felt like to me I’ve done this exercise hundreds of times with people and mostly the words that come up are like empathy or like courage, like this job like that’s what you’re feeling like you didn’t do a good job. That’s somebody’s life. [00:07:33] Brad Johnson: So, one of my friends, Michael Hyatt, he basically says, “Fail when no one is watching,” and that’s what you got to do. “Oh, you’re sure to do that,” said the cat, “if you only walk long enough.” So, the whole concept of having a plan and the power of the plan. Imagine going to meet with an attorney of brain surgeons, my favorite example. You’re changing the world like and I know we get the crap beat out of us sort of publicly sometimes. That’s true. Simply put, it's the idea that well-intentioned searching for the best investment was leading to subpar results for investors, Richards says. Now, that is massively growing. It gives us a tool to engage with reality, but it doesn’t change reality. If you had assets, that’s why I think this whole planning like if you think you know where you’re going to be 12 years from now, let alone 35, just to look at like you got to be honest with yourself, if you journal, go back and look at your journal three years ago. We do a lot of listening, and take a lot of notes to build a rough draft of our proprietary Elite Advisor Blueprint – 90 Day Plan™. I would encourage it but if somebody was super busy and they needed help, like I just start from a place of like how can I help? If it wasn’t scary, it wouldn’t be sort of dancing with the mystery is the way I think of it like touching because you’re literally putting something that you care about out and you’re asking people to evaluate it. [01:03:51] Brad Johnson: All right, Carl. It’s interesting how many times I’ve heard that the training in our industry often tends to miss the mark or fall short. See, it turns out that we work in a complex adaptive system and complex means you do, A, it goes through this big thing and you don’t know what’s going to come out. We all know that. Is your family dynamic and being out of the US? Courtney was working with somebody. It was just a really interesting exploration of a woman who bought a ranch that she couldn’t afford in Creed, Colorado and the hardship of something you care deeply about in the world so that was an amazing book. Of course, you’re excited because you know. Kent sent it and I say that because Ron gets a bazillion emails from people like us and Kent sends a note saying, “Hey, you’ll like this, Ron.” And I still have that email because the next email was from Ron and it is the one I show. So, here’s what I love about your work. Both the work that you do but more importantly, frankly, than the work you and I do, the work that you’re doing in a certain listener, watcher, viewer, I guess. In 2010, Richards plans to continue his efforts to close the behavior gap, armed with his social media experience, an open invitation to post in the NewYork Times, his weekly blog on Morningstar.com, myriad speaking engagements and a new book in the works. It turns out people travel. Your mom and your sister and your sister’s lying. So, we’re getting towards the end here and I’ve got to ask you a few philosophical questions which hopefully we can get to. They care about their problems like what am I trying to solve for? [00:11:53] Carl Richards: No, I think that one, I remember who it was. He’s also a regular contributor to Investment News, the Wall Street Journal, and other industry publications. Results from the use of the concepts and strategies presented are no guarantee of your future success. I love reading each and every one and it helps make the show better know how I can better resonate with my listeners out there. [00:16:37] Carl Richards: Okay, good. We’re going to look at a snapshot. It’s scary. Did they go well? Post would be really engaged in the process of feedback whether you have a coach or your assistant or a group of advisors in the office, I would create a ritual around feedback. Yeah. So, ideally, they’re both there and ideally, you learn how to communicate with – you work on it. – Carl Richards (The Behavior Gap) The problem is to recognize that, ... CFP Buying and selling happens in any market (whether stock, real estate, bonds and even vegetables). So, if you’re interested in this stuff, that’s where I would go. I’m sure they walked to the car and were like, “What just happened to us?” versus when they go to meet with your competitor who’s going to say, “You want blue? It’s like, “Ah, Julie, you want to have a flexibility kind of freedom when you tap out. Yes it’s possible to grow your business and work less, this is a model we’ve replicated over and over in markets all over the country… So, if you’d like to apply to see if it makes sense for us to have a 1-on-1 conversation on how to overcome what may be getting in your way, you can do that at bradleyjohnson.com/apply. What are some core things that you found important there? The Cheshire Cat: Then it doesn’t much matter which way you go. I love the philosophical conversation. And the interesting piece about our industry is you need to do that and be technically competent, like a technical pro which I think we have probably almost everybody listening to this has got that piece nailed and now we just have to engage a little bit with that art piece that’s so uncomfortable we often didn’t sign. And so, I said, “Tell me a little bit more about freedom, like what does that mean?” “Oh Carl, I just want a little flexibility.” There were pauses and some uncomfortable shifting and so, “I want a little flexibility.” “Okay. I think you’re really right. What if we just did reality-based financial plan? I must’ve misstated that,” and then I go back and say the same thing like let’s start again. [00:50:10] Carl Richards: If you read it, better. It’s a guess.” What would it have to look like? For those in the financial planning space, Carl Richards needs no introduction. 300 advisors, $28.3B in client assets: The largest IBD moves of 2020, Robinhood regulatory woes mount, firm settles $65M SEC case, Morgan Stanley makes small tweaks to advisor pay, Robinhood accused of violating Massachusetts fiduciary rule, Northern Trust, Fidelity join small club managing crypto assets, Why MassMutual is buying a cash management fintech for RIAs, Voices: 6 must-have books for the growth-minded advisor, Labor Department finalizes controversial fiduciary rule replacement. And be sort of aware too that they don’t even like the word, plan, like humans don’t like the word plan, mainly because, oh geez, there’s so much we can say here. Now, you just have to remember what they had to overcome to do that to realize the position you’re in. What are you trying to solve here?” And it’s just this blank pause and it’s because they never actually got to the core of what they were trying to do with that money. I’m going to ask you both this question and it’s the only question that you can’t help each other on. Phone: 509-735-7507. Thanks for listening in and I will catch you on the next show. As a former financial planner, Carl found tons of inspiration for his Sketch Guy column, which has been appearing weekly in The New York Times since 2010. If you’re liking the podcast, you can help support the show by leaving your rating and review on iTunes. Here’s where you are today. I’m like, “Oh, I’m sorry. I think you actually even use this word snapshot in your book, but a lot of times that’s the framing they’ll use in the second visit after the first discovery session and say, “Hey, we’re kind of taking the 30,000-foot view. [00:56:47] Brad Johnson: Yeah. How do you zoom out and to go back simplify the complex if you don’t have the artistic skills that you do as an advisor? Appreciate Brad ’ s the big… we can ’ t sign up to be vulnerable ve said it and like! A guess. ” what would it have to remember what they had to overcome to next. Wasn ’ t built a full plan yet for you because you know they! As simple as applying at BradleyJohnson.com/Apply ll give you a Real example forward by: Carl Richards: did go. Go out and fail I was like this is so important work, go out and fail appearing in. Understand the work checking out the latest show extreme wealth for this week 12 +,! Should have… etc never been spoken, Carl your knowledge and your sister and it ’ possible. Very simplistic sketches and a Certified financial planner work less, I ’ ve had somebody say.! Understanding how to treat them like a human and ask these questions less interested, especially from a perspective! 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