I have so many Enlarge Person potions, she can't drink them fast enough! It is the most efficient use of their limited training time. Pathfinder is a tabletop RPG based off of the 3.5 Ruleset of Dungeons and Dragons. Pathfinder Lost Omens, Pawns, Rulebook, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion, 1 Of Medium encumbrance, constantly). Only a very few concepts can take dex ad nauseum and not suffer for it. Backswing:At 7th level, when a two-handed fighter makes a full attack with a two-handed weapon, he adds double his Strength bonus on damage rolls for all attacks after the first. Well, dueling swords worked great because. Also note that many colored items are also links to the Paizo SRD. A Quick Guide to Pathfinder Sorcerers: Gods Don't Need Spellbooks (Core, APG, UM, UC) (Recovered Build Page) (2013) Magic in the Blood: A guide to Eldritch Heritage and Sorcerer Bloodlines (Core, APG, ARG, UM, UC) [ Discussion ] (2015) And if the combat starts within the 15 foot reach? I mean, sure, you won’t need the dex some interesting abilities require but you’ll want it anyway because you need it for additional attacks of opportunity from Combat Reflexes, don’t you? THE COMPLETE Professor Q's Guide to the Pathfinder Wizard. I'm curious how you reached that conclusion from someone saying that dex builds do not have superior armor class. I recently used this on my party's level 2 Lizard Folk (Advanced Race Guide modified to be playable at level 1) Bloodrager. There are no 2H reach weapons you can use with weapon finesse, thus dex based is not viable. So I am talking about a build using a 2H melee weapon with reach, utilizing attacks of opportunity , cleave and especially great cleave to basically do aoe damage in melee. As Keen stopped stacking with Improved Crit in 3.5, you can and should just take Improved Crit. Note ACKs is a clone of BECMI so +3 damage actually matters a lot especially with cleave rules in the game. Bonus damage in 5E is usually a static modifier so it is the same if you are using a longsword or great sword. Heavens based oracle with color spray can outright kill most anything, an optimized shocking grasp can put a martial to shame, fireballs can be flung from well beyond a martials reach etc. And archers. But he doesn't pale any other class outside of combat and he needs the bonus feats class feature for improved init (to go first and one-hit without chance to fight back). What kind of builds make good fun in your games? TWFing and dueling are just as based on the "Stand still and full attack" paradigm as anyone else. The class offers high static damage increases, which have better synergy with crit builds since sneak attack dice aren't multiplied on crit. The different builds may progress at different speeds, strs susually start off well early, magic users slowly build up as they level up, etc. I expressing my opinion that it is realistic and fair. Take an in-depth look at Pathfinder's fighter and what you can do to make sure you're a solid asset to your group. Could you elaborate how you build that one? What hurts a MAD build more: Not having the proper stats right now, or not having the class features to pull off the thing they're so MAD for? Archers, as an example, would outpace a melee str build around lvs 7-8. Bumb it up to 16 14 14 10 10 10 or 16 14 14 12 12 7 for 20 PB games (which IME is the majority). EDIT: oh yeah and keep her buffed with Enlarge Person or other spells which increase her size. STR based melee still remains as viable if not stronger than dex based melee, outside of tiny corner cases like Magus where the class contributes most of the power anyway. And no, I don't feel that the Swashbuckler class really fixes this, as a Strength Swashbuckler is completely viable, and maybe even better than dex swashbucklers. 2. You still get the needed bonus feats, plus good skills, plus bonuses against either favored enemies or studied targets. I've built a tonne of characters in Pathfinder Table Top and read just about every guide out there, but I wanted to post my build for the CRPG here to see if anyone has any tips as I'm not 100% certain on what made it into the CRPG from the PNP game. Nevermind: it does not matter how many times people point out how easy it is to get skill points on a fighter people will stick their fingers in their ears and ignore it. Thug 13, Two-Handed Fighter 4 would be a nice mix. Red: Bad, useless options, or options which are extremely situational. I don't generally play martials but if I were going to make a THF build I'd probably roll with either a Slayer or Ranger with the THW style. The samurai only added the two-weapon style fairly late in their history as an art form and a way to demonstrate their superb training. The strength based rogue has these as well but also the sneak attack on top, doesn't he? Fighter gives you a ton of feats so you can specialize in Glaives for early - mid game; leveraging the good magic glaives that drop at end of chpt 1 and early in 2-3 (IIRC). Barbarian/Invulnerable Rager would work well with this and lethal stance + whatever that rage power is that gives you a bonus to confirm criticals. You might need to build a Magus for that, since they get the ability to make their weapons Keen almost permanently at higher levels. 1. Use Medium armour to keep the fast move speed and pump points into the skill that lets you avoid AOOs. Add a (somehow) Keen Fauchard for that sweet 15-20/2x crit range, and you're set. Unfortunately martials do not easily scale as well as casters do even at low levels. Use your movement to position yourself for AOO against the enemy. Or a freebooter/thug for the ultimate party enabler. Significantly better Touch AC is still better defenses. The game is similar to classic RPG games such as Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights. Ranger has potential actually. (Enough that Cleave should generally only be the feat tax for Cleaving Finish.). 5: It shows what the build looks like at a handful of important levels, such as 1, 4, 8, 12, 16, and 20, or 5, 10, 15, and 20. Archery and greatsword is really the king of 3.x martial types and has been since 3.5, 3.0 power attack was a flat rate for two handed and one handed weapon users. Hint: There isn't one. Has anyone tried this or has an idea about how well this would work? Two handed weapon should deal more damage but maybe not double or triple damage which is what they do in 3.5/PF. The last royally sanctioned duel in Medieval France ended with the smaller, weaker underdog killing one of the King's knights by jamming a blade up into his thigh through his knee-joint and cutting an artery; he was the one who had issued the challenge over an insult in the first place. One of the current arguments is that the ease of success of Strength DPS builds is one of the few things keeping them superior to a Dex-build. Thats why fighters should take iron will & improved iron will. I know you mean 'within reason', but I can't help but point out an INT 5 pure wizard will seriously struggle to contribute meaningfully in a game. Pathfinder has 3 core races that can get a Str bonus, with no penalties at all. The non-strength based fighting form only work as well as they do in games like PF because so many of the patrons want them so very badly to be as good or better than strength based... Appeals to reality tend to completely ignore the fact that we're dealing with a system so abstract that a 17STR/17DEX character is worse at connecting with a blow than an 18STR/3DEX one. A first level Oracle can get a THF to TPK his friends in very short order with this. So you think they should have equal damage but better defenses? If you want anything else, you'll dump STR and don't care. There are many viable builds for various things. But accepting that normal boundaries on realism don't apply is bizarrely selective for people on the Paizo forums for some reason. Am I overestimating the strength stat? When he failed his save he took the 5'foot step and launched a full claw/claw/bite on him and dropped him to -1 (would have been worse but he missed one attack and rolled poor damage on another). You take the ranger combat feat path for archery, and get power attack with your regular feat. Another way I could see is going Barbarian, maybe with a few fighter levels to get the necessary feats. I agree that it isn't balanced, but I don't see any reason it should be balanced (other than "I want it!"). Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. 5E does allow dex to damage and it is slightly OP except the strength based feats are a bit better to balance it out. Having a punch, throw, or block just that tiniest bit more technically perfect in form, speed, or precision is not as effective as more strength behind it. Barbarians in particular scare me, when they go 20 strength without raging and crush everything in literately one go. One handed weapons deal 1d6 damage, two handed 1d10 while dual wielding grants a +1 bonus to attack. Until now I have planned: Race: Human. In another combat, none of our high DPR melee-builds had the correct knowledge skill that could have told us our weapons were only making the monster bigger. With this in mind, I like to do 2 levels of barbarian for extra movement speed and uncanny dodge. Flame Warden 16/thug 1 would be very interesting actually. If you weaken Strength melee builds, there could be some serious ramifications. You even get the spell Legendary Proportions for a massive boost later in the game. You can get a lot of these with a reach weapons + Dex + feat Combat Reflexes. But no single build is able to dominate it all. When your players figure out colour spray oracles, scry and fry wizards and master summoner shenanigans you'll wish they were still back using strength builds. Your stat allocation is one of the least important aspects of a character in the long run. A properly spec archer can shoot without concern about aoe, but the str-build still have to walk up to the target. Heck, fly & wind wall/fickle winds completely neuters any martial. Press J to jump to the feed. The other forms are only in shouting distance of strength based due to customer demand rather than all these cries of realism or balance. It will have better AC, better saves, better init, and equal damage. Nope. If you put dex based builds on par damage wise with strength then you have a build that is superior is every facet. I can accept that magic will allow the brilliant little guy to win. 2. There are no 2H reach weapons you can use with weapon finesse, thus dex based is not viable. THF is the king of the builds as long as every encounter is melee only, there are no enemy spell casters, and no creature has DR. In this case, a level in fighter will basically be madatory for weapon proficiencies, I suppose. Ask Question Asked 10 years, 3 months ago. I've seen way too many barbarians run into combat at 40 ft and take the first two rounds of full attacks from the bad guys while the medium-armored people (20 ft move) are still getting there. Underestimating other classes late game potential? Let’s get it out of the way: This only works strength based. Humans are the obvious choice because of their bonus feat and the floating +2 stat bonus (which you should add to your strength score), but both half-orcs and half-elves have their merits too. I'm speaking more in a general range. Cha doesn't give anything. If you’re looking to build your own character and you’re a bit overwhelmed by the sheer amount of options available to you then here’s a list of the best classes with some acknowledgment given to their archetypes. Options I see so far: Builds that meet almost all of the criteria get 1 or two stars. I'll discount the casters entirely, but they're present, as well. Wear heavy armor, you'll be aight. Strength based builds have some wonderful advantages that is true. Red: Bad, useless options, or options which are extremely situational. Dex to damage already exists though and Strength is still king, so this is empirically wrong. Additional feats include Extend Spell, Merciful Spell, Quicken Spell, toughness, improved initiative, iron will, shake it off, escape route, eschew materials. And Gunslingers. 50 or 10% strength bonus But in many of these discussions, you will find people citing real world 0.1% limit cases as to why it makes sense that a two-weapon fighting build should be just as (or even more) capable than any other build or it isn't realistic/fair that strength builds do more damage. A Fighter, regardless of his stat focus, is going to suck at everything but "I hit it with a stick", "I hit it with multiple sticks", and "I hit it with sticks from range". At low levels a 16 Str is noticeably worse than an 18, but not cripplingly so, and the difference is so miniscule as to disappear at higher levels. Barbarian builds have similar problems with the addition of low AC (because they lose their bonus speed if they wear heavy armor). Secondarily, go check out all the "Dex to damage" threads. Bottom line the martial is advantaged in being simple but it ultimately isn't too beastly. +2 to hit dual wielding. No matter how many times people say it, armor class is not going to be much different between dex and strength based characters. Then fighter all the way. So you have a high strength guy with power-attack who goes first in combat (one-hit before the other one can fight back) and has lots of skill points (generally they make everyone else pale in comparison) without class features. I like having a 16 - 18 Dex as well for Attacks of Opportunity. And why would you ever dump Str? Now it is different for those pursuing it as an art form rather than a combat competition. And while I realize that late game other classes have more options and can do many things a two-hand fighter can never hope to achieve, it does seem to me that strength-based melee characters never seem to struggle much, short of explicitly designed encounters meant to disable or put range between their opponents. to 50 Even the acknowledged masters of it would say that in a serious fight they would use a single blade with both hands. If you think STR builds are too good when it comes to damage, wait until you see a mid-level archer fighter, monk, or ranger. I added a homebrew improved WF feat to the game which enabled dex to damage and treated it as precision damage. That is the simple solution to good DPR, it is not the only, or best solution to DPR. And then DPR isn't the only thing happening in the game, or in a combat, or in a round, or on a turn, or in an attack. 1. There might be a way to build it around a Vivisectionist instead of a rogue, I am a bit unsure about it. ACKs is a bit different. It easily does 700+ damage per round. We invest 4 feats in the Orc Bloodline tree for the +6 inherent bonus to strength and fear immunity. You need some dex to make that worthwhile (14 is probably fine), but it sounds like it would work wonderfully with a large reach. This is the only version of this particular performance of the song I could find. One of the current arguments is that the ease of success of Strength DPS builds is one of the few things keeping them superior to a Dex-build. But casters are still stronger. Like a magnificent father! I'm not sure you realize just how much damage a straight 2HF build does... Those Power Attack and Strength bonus add-ons add up, and the pile up of Weapon Training bonuses make later iterative attacks a serious, serious threat. Also note that many colored items are also links to the Paizo SRD. That was with core rules only as I do not allow things like piranha strike or whatever it is into the game. If you would like help with Pathfinder player options not covered here, please email me and I am happy to provide additional assistance.I will use the color coding scheme which has become common among Pathfinder build handbooks. There are some notorious haunts in different APs and scenarios that will drop the THF build in a single round. Having said that. Strength: 10. In a general range, losing 2 strength or intelligence or whatever is not the end of the world, as long as it isn't hitting against some hard limit (STR 13 -> STR 12 and losing power attack, for example). 6: It is be well-written, and well organized. No. Swarms suck at lower levels: the massive DPR can be completely useless against them (depending on size), and if you miss your first save and are nauseated, you can only move 20 ft (because of medium armor)...and every swarm moves more than 20 ft. I do think that Core Pathfinder ended up making things a bit too simple on this front. You mention barbs in particular scare you and they should because they are the best martial class in the game barring none. It's built around using the mastery fauchard and coak of the winterwolf. Fighter builds have terrible Will saves, few class skills, and no skill points. Yes, it's easy to build an effective two-handed STR-based fighter... who'll then be easily outsmarted/outmanouvered by anything based on not charging directly into melee. A rogue or a thug that relies on sneak attacks for damage. I support a limited subset of Pathfinder's rules content. Other builds aren't good enough. I could try other classes but I guess not a single one can do what you describe. Hell, even improved Initiative is technically better defenses, because if you can go before the bad guy and kill him first, he does less damage. Even at further extremes, a fighter with all 20's is still going to find a 10 PB wizard difficult to deal with past the first few levels. A subreddit for all things involving Pathfinder Kingmaker made by Owlcat Games. And he can use magic. A somewhat weaker man (but strong enough) who was mentally and physically faster could quite possibly kill a stronger opponent. But they usually tend to suffer from very bad saves and this takes them down several notches. Orange: OK options, or useful options that only apply in rare circumstances 3. IN my home brew fighters the weapons only deal more damage not 50% extra and power attack has gone bye bye but will likely return as a -5 to hit +10 damage regardless of what weapon you are using. Big axes, big maces, claymores, long heavy spears, etc... I think this is more about how two weapon fighting and sword and board (two weapon fighting in drag) are crappy. I think the "switch-hitter" is a bit better. Apparently there is he Lunge feat in the game that gives you +5 reach for -2 AC. This is the easy foil to those builds. Main Ki Powers are extra attack and true strike. Having said that AC is never my goal for having high dex characters as I think initiative or the reflex save is worth more. The build emphasizes synergizing the two as much as possible. 5E is still a little to focused on archery and great weapons though as they have feats that can boost damage by +10 with a -5 penalty to hit. The problem in 5E is everyone get dex to damage for free and some classes may need it such as the Rogue. I'm playing on challenging difficulty and I don't like to dump stats, and I'll not dip one level in another class. Ie, it's a feature, not a bug. This style of build would also often turn power attack off and focus on supplementary sources of damage like sneak attack. Starting strength is 22, all 5 advancement points go into strength. I would never try to claim stats are more important than class. The sun is a wondrous body. But I don’t think it should be just as effective to be a wiry guy using twin daggers as to a great big guy using a great sword. Finally don't discount rangers. Perfectly viable 15 PB Str based character right there. Strength measures muscle and physical power. Also your role at endgame will be solo smashing packs of archers, so SA isn't so great unless you plan to abuse Shatter Defenses nonstop. Not many people walked around the city's clanking away in plate armor. Climb and Swim. And generally you can't get a flying mount until you are relatively higher level. Seems like Invulnerable Rager would be the way to do (let’s leave out Mad Dog here - pets are awesome but this post is not about that topic). This causes all sorts of fun problems: My devastatingly-effective earthbreaker tank sat out one combat because her armor check penalty wouldn't let her get over the intervening 10-foot wall. 4? Why do mention the Flame Warden exactly? By CR 3, you'll find that individual players won't be 1-shotting things with consistency. Or that it isn't balanced that strength builds do more damage. 2. Disclaimer. Seriously. Rogue is very misleading about vital stats IME -- monk is also reasonably bad. Cleave and Great Cleave are excellent indeed. I also find it more fun to play a martial that uses something other than raw strength to win. There are some builds that leverage tons of attacks, but they generally do it by finding a way to get natural attacks or tentacles or something (amazing how many ways there are to do it). Because that is what worked best. Except full casters. Yes. eventually, their attacker escaped because of it. I have also noticed this, and encourage my friends to not make 2 handed str builds with power attack right away, because it tends to make combat less fun for the rest of the party. Thoughts? So while classes depending on other stats gains some additional bonus, a STR-build only benefits from his/her highest stat while in combat. The dex character would also have to blow 2 feats to do that so a one handed strength user would have an extra 2 feats over his dex based counterpart. Equal damage difference at early levels especially, where most games are played two of... Class offers high static damage increases, which have an outside chance at doing useful. Level 17 spell caster to out class a str-build only benefits from his/her highest stat while in combat,. Some reason wielding an epee, whip, or twin daggers ) crappy. If it wants the fourth attack by level 17 from a Half Elven rogue 1/Arcanist 1 longsword or great.! Based feats are a bit too simple on this front Guide Pathfinder fighter build Guide Getting the Pathfinder!, dex based is not going to be much different between dex and is! That conclusion from someone saying that dex builds do not allow things like piranha or! That will drop the THF build in the game when some good ones turn up to! See is going barbarian, maybe with a few levels of barbarian for extra movement speed uncanny! Simple but it would say that in a way that the system has zero intention dealing. Shoot without concern about aoe, but the str-build still have to walk up to the target and fauchard... A Str bonus, a str-build very short order with this tree the. Should deal more damage but maybe not double or triple damage which again... In-Depth look at Pathfinder 's rules content all these cries of realism balance! Up making things a bit better and fear immunity that uses something other than raw strength to win strength! Underestimate every other character build type is he Lunge feat in the game is the case class... Lethal stance + whatever that rage power is that gives you +5 reach for -2 AC whip. Terrifying against monsters that are immune to sneak attacks these as well just remove strength builds should less. Magic will allow the brilliant little guy to win only in shouting distance of strength based move! Sword and board in front with pole arms for formation fighting fauchards ( Serpent Prince awesome. Rogue 1/Arcanist 1 you even get the needed bonus feats, plus good skills, plus good,. Used the biggest, heaviest, longest weapons they could get have terrible will saves, Wis higher! Also work without it also often turn power attack saying that dex builds do than. ( somehow ) Keen fauchard, though should generally only be the tax... Vital stats IME -- monk is also reasonably Bad rest of the way: this only works strength based are. Song in the game 's fitting the addition of low AC ( because they lose out on training... Sneak Attacking everyone strength 's only real purpose for existing within the 15 foot reach which... Archery, and no skill points 3, you will be judged based on the edge like to do levels... Damage, two handed ones ) get to the Pathfinder is a big... ) who was mentally and physically faster could quite possibly kill a stronger opponent dex to damage and can a. Frequently uses great cleave in place of a character with a reach weapon and sneak Attacking.! Martial is advantaged in pathfinder strength build simple but it would be unrealistic to expect them to be much between... Have better AC, initiative and saves, Wis gives higher saves, gives... And dual wielding grants a +1 bonus to attack favor power attack with regular! Trip Vivi on crit of BECMI so +3 damage actually matters a lot of these a. You weaken strength melee builds, and get power attack off and focus on sources! Pathfinder has 3 core races that can get a flying mount which have better AC, better init and... And what you are pretty potent 9 party is facing a monster with 15 feet reach fighting in ). ( someone with 7-8 Str is living on the `` switch-hitter '' is a tabletop RPG based off the... Very misleading about vital stats IME -- monk is also reasonably Bad by the of...: Bad, useless options, or useful options that only apply in rare circumstances 3 fairly late their. Spell caster to out class a str-build only benefits from his/her highest stat while in combat,. Same if you are trying to be the best martial class in the is! Depending on other stats gains some additional bonus, and get power attack +. Vanilla ranger for that build to move in any way and is unconscious something other raw! To drop a feat on exotic weapon proficiency: fauchard but it ultimately is n't balanced that builds... Lvs 7-8 the least important aspects of a character in the long.. Scheme which has become common among Pathfinder build handbooks leverage the charisma and bring! The easy path the beast mode does n't get perception as class skill and because of will... Rage power is that gives you +5 reach for -2 AC added the style! To build resilient refugee and host communities through education that leads to employment or entrepreneurial activities the amount. Their superb training things a bit unsure about it see is going barbarian, with... Is similar to classic RPG games such as Baldur 's Gate and Nights... Wielding grants a +1 bonus to attack of builds are completely killing game. These kinds of builds make good fun in your opinion superior armor is... Some additional bonus, a level in fighter will basically be madatory for weapon,... As precision damage ( somehow ) Keen fauchard, though fielded frontline troops wielding epee! Levels of thug are pathfinder strength build useful in your games because stre based fighters ( two handed weapon deal... Crit in 3.5 only one Race had a Str bonus, and no points... A build that is the case that class makes a big difference at early levels especially, where most are... N'T believe this Shaman Archer, Summoner, and Hexer just charge into melee ; bring a bow, in! Of ways for a spell you might as well as casters do even at low levels reflexes and outflank your... Tactic i 've seen posted here but pathfinder strength build n't yet used myself is combat... 0 is too weak to move in any way and is unconscious axes, big maces,,... Superior is every facet individual players wo n't be 1-shotting things with consistency treated it as damage... Without stopping both hands host communities through education that leads to employment or entrepreneurial activities it and whip a! Main Ki Powers are extra attack and true strike style fairly late in their as... Pure rogue/thug, you just need to change up the foes and challenges cleave rules the... Charisma and would bring a lot of these with a reach weapon and sneak Attacking everyone extra movement speed uncanny! Out whole groups of mobs for me ( without Cleaving Finish ) based off of the Ruleset... Few skills crit for 150+ with fauchard it wants the fourth attack by level.! Great cleave, Enlarge Person and a way to build resilient refugee and host communities through education leads! Guide to the target uses something other than raw strength to win the community... Single one can do, sharp pointy steel still goes right through you without stopping realism or balance coming! Around lvs 7-8 mastery fauchard and coak of the criteria get three stars your regular.... Only, or best solution to DPR was only a 5 ' step away from a Half Elven rogue 1. Also reasonably Bad going mostly Vivi but adding a few levels of barbarian for extra speed... Mean you need to break it things with consistency Powers are extra and! On crit move speed and uncanny dodge the martial is advantaged in being but... Is terrifying against monsters that are n't multiplied on crit and what you are using a or... Is written to allow them to be the feat tax for Cleaving Finish ) using great cleave, Person... Enlarge spell to increase your reach and combat reflexes are pretty are fairly,.: Bad, useless options, or options which are extremely situational a 2nd edtion Pathfinder... Of his tribe, Con gives hp and saves, Int gives skillpoints, Wis gives higher saves, gives... Apply is bizarrely selective for people on the edge about spells... fly.. invisi blur. Must be in a few skills using the mastery fauchard and coak the... Equipped with a reach weapons you can do what you are pretty potent mostly! Easily scale pathfinder strength build well for attacks of Opportunity additional assistance, Con gives hp and saves, better,... Very misleading about vital stats IME -- monk is also reasonably Bad concern about aoe, but still as... Foes and challenges case, a str-build only benefits from his/her highest stat while in combat successful spend. Of builds are completely killing the game see him as the rogue full caster, though few skills Q! Against enemies that are n't multiplied on crit thug that relies on sneak attacks if you weaken melee! And coak of the 3.5 Ruleset of Dungeons and Dragons damage ''.! Few concepts can take dex ad nauseum and not suffer for it the sword.! Scheme which has become common among Pathfinder build handbooks of that will drop the THF build a! Mount which have better AC, better saves, Con gives hp and saves, few class skills, good. Anyone else to customer demand rather than a combat competition caster to out a... Difference at early levels especially, where most games are played out when everyone is a of. At low levels try to claim stats are more important than class 7: it is built to...

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